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Java 8 Update 40 out - now using an application to install

Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:08 PM by rtrouton

There's a new Java 8 update out as of today. Oracle has decided to change its application deployment strategy from providing a standard installer package to an installer application.

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This application will prompt for admin privileges before fully launching.

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Once you provide admin authentication, the application launches.

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You will be prompted to install an Ask.com toolbar. The installation of the toolbar is selected by default.

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It will then tell you how many devices run Java while it installs.

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Once complete, it'll tell you what it's installed.

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It'll then ask you to install the Ask.com toolbar as a Safari extension.

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If you then choose to install the Ask.com toolbar, Safari will look like this.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:12 PM by dderusha

YESS!!! I really wanted ask.com Extensions built into Java installers. Thanks for following through on my feature request Oracle!

Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:13 PM by timsutton

I like this version of the installation, if you happen to have Apple's Java 6 still installed:

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:14 PM by dpertschi

Good Grief! What the he** is wrong with these people!

They obviously just hired some Adobe developers on the cheap!

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:15 PM by mm2270

Goodbye Oracle!
You've crossed the line as far as I'm concerned. This is just utter and complete garbage. Application installer instead of a pkg installer? Prompting to install Safari toolbars? This is moving more into the realm of adware than software. What in the world are they thinking?? Maybe they recruited former Adobe installer developers?

As always Rich, your diligence in keeping us informed on this is appreciated.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:17 PM by jhbush1973

@mm2270 at least the JDK for JAVA 8 Update 40 is still a .pkg and doesn't have the Ask toolbar.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:21 PM by mm2270

Ah, thanks for that info @jhbush1973. Didn't catch that part. So, the above only applies to the JRE installer?

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:23 PM by jhbush1973

@mm2270 it appears so. Hopefully Rich will have a blog post up and I've filed a support ticket with Oracle under our agreement.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:26 PM by mm2270

Yeah, issue is, we typically only install the JRE. We don't have much need for the JDK version for our clients. Are we seriously going to need to start doing captures to get Java installers now? If I could convince the org to completely drop using it I would, but of course some web applications require it. Ugh.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:42 PM by quedayone

I happend to be testing Rich's script today and I can till you that it is not working.

Running script java_8_install_latest.sh... Script exit code: 255 Script result: /dev/disk2 GUID_partition_scheme /dev/disk2s1 Apple_HFS /private/tmp/java_eight.ZAJY installer: Error the package path specified was invalid: ''. "disk2" unmounted. "disk2" ejected.

It looks like it will still download the new installer DMG, but the app as an installer I think is breaking it.
I did run the app and it did NOT prompt me to install ask.com toolbar crap. I will test some more.....

Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:45 PM by htse

You can drill down into the package contents, there's a pkg in Resources/JavaAppletPlugin.pkg, which I think is the effective payload we want, without any of the interactive and ask.com nonsense

Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:49 PM by timsutton

..and if you use AutoPkg, you can keep using the latest OracleJava8.pkg recipe:

https://github.com/autopkg/recipes/commit/873e477b2941051fa4cee12da07c4845852dbe7f

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:49 PM by quedayone

Looks like there is a .pkg in the app bundle:
Oracle Java 1.8.0_40/Java 8 Update 40.app/Contents/Resources/JavaAppletPlugin.pkg

Pretty sure that is the guy we might want to use.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:50 PM by quedayone

+ 1 for AutoPkg

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:54 PM by mm2270

Well, that gives us something to work with, but let's hope some rationale prevails at Oracle and they return to a regular good ol' package installer at some point. I see no reason to move to an .app installer other than arrogance and/or ignorance.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:16 PM by Sandy

There is a JavaAppletPlugin.pkg inside the .app, and for anyone out there in K12 trying to keep the Pearson monster happy, this does appear to work.
Super timing!

Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:18 PM by sflockhart

JavaAppletPlugin.pkg does work. I was able to send it out as a policy.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:20 PM by mm2270

So, does this update only work on Yosemite? On my 10.9.5 Mac it doesn't show up as being an available update.

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:29 PM by donmontalvo

(duplicate)

Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:29 PM by calumhunter

I see no reason to move to an .app installer other than arrogance and/or ignorance.

+1 arrogance

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:29 PM by tangerinehuge

It appears to work on both Mavericks and Yosemite. It didn't show up as an update for me on Mavericks but I was able to install it from the DMG. Interestingly, I was not prompted to install the Ask toolbar when I ran the installer on my Yosemite machine. It just skipped that step and never installed it.

Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:30 PM by kish.jayson

Just downloaded the latest version to see for myself and confirmed that the application DID NOT ask me to install the Ask.com Toolbar. Makes me wonder if Oracle realized their error early on and removed it...

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:31 PM by donmontalvo

McDonald's: More than a trillion served, by robots
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101253344

High blood pressure? High cholesterol? Diabetes? What are you talking about? There is nothing unhealthy about our food. We have served one trillion people (so far), what's not to like? \- George Costanza, McDonalds Franchise Owner

8 billion computers run (meh, maybe cumulatively, over the years) run Java...but Oracle can't afford to hire a capable/competent person to create proper platform specific installers. Very McDonalds.

Don

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:34 PM by tangerinehuge

I just downloaded it and it did ask me to install the toolbar on my Mavericks VM so it don't think they've removed it.

Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:36 PM by calumhunter

the java #toolbargate scandal has begun

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 5:02 PM by donmontalvo

(duplicate)

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 5:03 PM by gskibum

I've gone from indifferent about Java (at best) to disgusted.

Posted: 3/3/15 at 5:12 PM by H3144-IT

I simply did not get the ASK Toolbar Installation Prompt at all.

Who the heck uses ASK anyway?

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 5:16 PM by donmontalvo

I declined to install the Ask toolbar, and behold the Sponsors.framework garbage, among other cr@p:

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Nice...let's drop aliases into these folders...

Mac:~ admin$ ls -l /Library/LaunchAgents/com.oracle.java.Java-Updater.plist 
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  104 Mar  3 14:54 /Library/LaunchAgents/com.oracle.java.Java-Updater.plist -> /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Resources/com.oracle.java.Java-Updater.plist
Mac:~ admin$ ls -l /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.oracle.java.Helper-Tool.plist 
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  103 Mar  3 14:54 /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.oracle.java.Helper-Tool.plist -> /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Resources/com.oracle.java.Helper-Tool.plist
Mac:~ admin$ ls -l /Library/PreferencePanes/JavaControlPanel.prefPane 
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  101 Mar  3 14:54 /Library/PreferencePanes/JavaControlPanel.prefPane -> /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Home/lib/deploy/JavaControlPanel.prefPane
Mac:~ admin$
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Posted: 3/3/15 at 5:17 PM by donmontalvo

@mm2270 wrote:

Goodbye Oracle! You've crossed the line as far as I'm concerned.

My personal MBPr has been free of Adobe/Microsoft/Java and it couldn't be happier. ;)

Don

Posted: 3/3/15 at 7:40 PM by rtrouton

I've written a post with my findings so far:

https://derflounder.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/oracles-java-8-update-40-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

Posted: 3/3/15 at 7:45 PM by rtrouton

For folks who are using my install_latest_oracle_java_8 script, I've posted an updated script to accommodate for Java 8 Update 40's changes:

https://github.com/rtrouton/rtrouton_scripts/tree/master/rtrouton_scripts/install_latest_oracle_java_8

Details on the changes are here:

https://github.com/rtrouton/rtrouton_scripts/commit/02f2f0c82ef4dd5f9b0f047cd015d7056e8ea004

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Posted: 3/3/15 at 8:08 PM by cwaldrip

App installer? Ugh. Ultra annoying. Grrr. But, I've seen the same thing as @quedayone. I wasn't prompted for the Ask toolbar.

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Posted: 3/4/15 at 5:19 AM by gskibum

"We want Java on as many devices as possible. So let's make it difficult for IT to deploy. And hijack web beowsers in the process."

I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the Oracle meetings that led us here.

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Posted: 3/4/15 at 6:48 AM by mm2270

I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the Oracle meetings that led us here.

I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I would say this was probably not a software engineer's decision (is it really ever?) Some upper management airhead at Oracle that knows nothing about IT or user experience came up with this stroke of brilliance and convinced someone else it was a brilliant idea, and it got approved. I'd imagine at least some of the actual developers at Oracle were probably cringing when they were given this direction.

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Posted: 3/4/15 at 7:34 AM by Kennedy

Rolled out the package inside the app today \- working well.

Ultimately not a big deal \- agree with @mm2270][/url \- it would not have been the software engineers that 'decided' to do this. Poor guys/gals.

My 2c.

Posted: 3/4/15 at 8:01 AM by taugust04

Is there any reason not to install the JDK instead of the JRE? I've always deployed the JDK because I read a while back that it installed more "bits" that are used by actual Java applications that run on the Mac (not web applets). Perhaps I misinterpreted that? I also was under the impression that the Java 6 implementation that was built into OS X from Apple was based on the JDK as well...

\~Ted

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Posted: 3/4/15 at 8:09 AM by gshackney

Using the package inside the app, does it just overwrite the plug-in? IE does it maintain previously pushed settings (for instance updates set to off stay that way after using the package inside the app)?

Gabe Shackney
Princeton Public Schools

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Posted: 3/4/15 at 8:28 AM by dpertschi

@mm2270

would say this was probably not a software engineer's decision (is it really ever?) Some upper management airhead at Oracle that knows nothing about IT or user experience came up with this stroke of brilliance and convinced someone else it was a brilliant idea, and it got approved.

Absolutely, and that stroke of brilliance was fueled by hard cold cash! Oracle big shots determine that they can't afford to constantly develop bug security/bug fixes = advertising deal.

Won't be surprised when Adobe has to pull the same trick for their shi**y Flash player.

Posted: 3/4/15 at 10:05 PM by Ball

Here all start complaining!!!

http://bugreport.java.com/bugreport/main.jsp At the bottom under “Report an Issue” from the drop down select “Comments and/or Suggestions” and write away!

If thats not enough for you send the CEO’s an email as well!! mark.hurd@oracle.com and safra.catz@oracle.com they seem to hold a joint CEO positions.

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Posted: 3/6/15 at 12:57 AM by m.entholzner

Using the package inside the app, does it just overwrite the plug-in? IE does it maintain previously pushed settings (for instance updates set to off stay that way after using the package inside the app)?

I'm deploying this package since yesterday, seems to work pretty fine. I've also checked the package content of the 7U40 package against the 7U31 package, they seem to be the same. Even the postinstall scripts are the same. So, for my point of view, the only wrapped that creepy app around the usual package.

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Posted: 3/6/15 at 8:50 AM by dpertschi

Scathing comments and suggestions just sent, and boy that felt good! After I calm down a little, I might just shoot the same off to the CEO's.

Let's be heard!

Posted: 3/6/15 at 1:34 PM by maser

This is just awesome:

http://www.brunerd.com/blog/2015/03/06/java-8-update-40-installer-app-fun/

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Posted: 3/6/15 at 1:48 PM by mm2270

Wow, that is just freakin' stupid. All the more reason to drop the nonsense that is Java and not look back. Talk about swiss cheese security.

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Posted: 3/6/15 at 2:49 PM by dstranathan

Has this checkbox always been in the Java 8 System Preference Pane on OS X? I just noticed it today.

Advanced > Miscellaneous > "Suppress sponsor offers when installing or updating Java"

Does this apply to the Ask.com browser extension?

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Posted: 3/6/15 at 3:12 PM by tangerinehuge

Definitely not. It was added as of update 40. Not sure what it refers to but I assume the Ask.com extension is a good bet.

Posted: 3/9/15 at 9:52 AM by adam.s

To get the standard .pkg. Right click on the .app installer. "Show Package Contents". Contents > Resources > JavaAppletPlugin.pkg This is the underlying installer for Java8u40.

This is similar to running the Java exe installer on Windows and finding the .msi and .cab in the AppData folder

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Posted: 3/10/15 at 9:10 AM by Chris_Hafner

Sounds like they've taken some creative inspiration form Adobe... and yes, the package works just fine.

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Posted: 3/11/15 at 8:45 AM by dstranathan

On a somewhat related note...

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but there are some good ideas for managing Java 7 and Java 8 here on Patrick Fergus' blog:

https://foigus.wordpress.com/2015/02/20/managing-java-7-and-8-updates/

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Posted: 3/12/15 at 7:36 AM by RDD

Just downloaded it this morning and it's gone back to how it was before! Not sure if that's happening to anyone else?

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Posted: 3/12/15 at 8:02 AM by nessts

looks like just a pkg to me in the DMG. glad I had not gotten around to pulling apart the other one.

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Posted: 3/12/15 at 9:16 AM by cwaldrip

Certainly looks like they got the message. I see a pkg installer now too.

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Posted: 3/12/15 at 9:29 AM by mm2270

Rich already posted about this, but on a new thread:
https://jamfnation.jamfsoftware.com/discussion.html?id=13703

Definitely seems like they got the message loud and clear. I'm not sure if the .app installer or the promotion of Ask.com bothered me more, but no matter - I'm glad someone at Oracle came to their senses and reversed course. And I hope whoever came up with the .app/Ask bundle idea got an earful on never doing that again.

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Posted: 3/12/15 at 9:34 AM by Kennedy

Thanks to @Ball for the links - I certainly posted some feedback, and clearly many others did as well. Perplexing decision, but at least they took the feedback on-board and sorted it.

That's more than I can say for our basketball umpires tonight.

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Posted: 3/12/15 at 11:43 AM by mm2270

I also would not be surprised if the link above posted by @maser had something to do with the reversal as well-
http://www.brunerd.com/blog/2015/03/06/java-8-update-40-installer-app-fun/
That's some pungent swiss cheese security there! To note, the new installer is a signed package. I never checked to see if the other embedded one was also signed, but since the .app wrapper wasn't checking the signature, that was bad news. The reversal should put that to rest though.

Posted: 3/16/15 at 4:40 PM by Ball

Well it didn't last long....seems to be back to an .app installer off Java.com today! Must be having some inside rumblings! See https://derflounder.wordpress.com and also just checked Java.com myself and it is indeed back to a .app! Frustrating! I wonder whats going on inside of Oracle about this the past few days...lol
Keep emailing them!!

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Posted: 4/16/15 at 10:43 AM by gskibum

Has anyone tested the Java 8 Update 45 that was released yesterday?

My experience was that I couldn't get the "Show Package Contents" to appear. However the installer didn't install any of the garbage detailed above. It was just a clean install captured by Composer.

Posted: 4/16/15 at 10:50 AM by timsutton

The latest release doesn't use the .app installer. Again referring to an earlier post in this thread:

https://jamfnation.jamfsoftware.com/discussion.html?id=13567#responseChild80832

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Posted: 4/16/15 at 10:51 AM by jhbush1973

@gskibum so far it looks fine to me. Oracle returned to a .pkg installer which worked as expected. @rtrouton update script works great and detected the new version based on the smart group.

Posted: 4/16/15 at 12:12 PM by Account deleted

Same experience here, neither the pre or postinstall scrips in the package have any reference to any of the Sponsor garbage. That said, I cannot wait to ditch Java entirely.